I did receive mine and the low light capabilities (typical indoor room lighting) are very poor.  Images are so grainy, it is impossible to tell what is in focus and what is not in focus for such images.  I intend to try it for bright outdoor images, but the indoor performance matches the camera phone I had around 2003.

Hi - Please send me an RMA so I can return my camera.  I was going to test it further before deciding what to do, but the more I think about it, my photography is 95% indoors, and any camera that can't handle that isn't ever going to be satisfactory.   I do think you should be more forthright with your customers and warn them that the current camera is inadequate for most indoor use.

I just received my Lytro last night - tested it out and uploaded a few photos.  I haven't found real editing features on the uploaded photos - can't seem to crop or change the exposure.  Is this coming soon?

Thanks!

Hello Ann, we are working on some editing features, and I'd love to hear if there's more you'd like to see beyond crop and exposure since we're bouncing around a few ideas.

Why bother adding editing features that will never equal those in Photoshop et al? I feel that you should be spending your precious engineering time developing features that are unique to the Lytro like adjustable depth of field and making sure your export and integration with other tools is first class.

Though I realize that the WYSIWYG living image thing  and control of that is Lytro's foundation, I was under the impression that it would be possible to export a flattened image from the Lytro application, however there seems to be no means to do this.  I tried to get my mom to use an iBook a decade ago, and at 70 she just never got  the point and click thing (at 80 I don't expect her to) but in the event I manage to get some snapshot  in a well-lit environment which I would like to share with her, is my only option to create a paper image to grab a bunch screen images and composite them?     Is any export  and flattening functionality planned? 

 As for editing living pictures, I would think that the following features would be of use: (1) cropping [not because the classic square 'blad format isn't timeless, but rather because sometimes the photographer is unable to control everything within the field of view, and cropping is the simplest appropriate corrective action.] (2) selecting areas which should never be in focus [defining a permanent blur] for artistic purposes or for privacy concerns (think license plates, maybe faces.) (3) being able to compose an image from multiple light fields (think green screen or selecting regions and compositing them.) 

is there really no way to bring images into photoshop?  years ago a prosumer Olympus 5050 shot RAW which made it a great choice because in photoshop there was so much that could be done.  I'm kind of bummed about the image quality as well, though I've only had the camera for a day.  the first shot I took, indoors, is super grainy, and as a previous commenter said it's like a 10 year old camera phone.  when my iPhone 4, not even 4S, is a better camera, then I worry.  if I can have access to the full image quality and bring the image in to photoshop, then maybe it's more than a parlor trick camera, based on changing the focal length after the image has been taken.  so is the answer to the question - no - you can't manipulate the full data set in photoshop, but can only export a JPG and bring that in to photoshop?  if so, I may be sending mine back too.  thanks.

Hello all, thanks for all the comments!

Chris, it's a fine balance we're walking right now.  We do not intend to replicate Photoshop and everything we do, we want to launch with our Lytro quality and innovation standards.  Given that, there is a real need we're hearing to tune the captured images to make them more beautiful and shareable.  Don't worry, we have some amazing features that will allow you to share even more unique light field pictures on the roadmap.

Bill C, you can export a JPEG.  You have to right-click an image in the library view.  Right now, it is limited to one pic at a time, but we're working on that too.  And thanks for editing ideas.  I love them.

Tod - Unfortunately, Adobe does not support our light field picture format.  We believe it's only a matter of time before that happens, but I'm sure you can appreciate the work required in getting a company the size of Adobe to work with us.  The good news is that with all of you taking and sharing light field pictures, we can show them that light field technology is here to stay!  As I mentioned, we do have some cool editing features coming soon.

Chris - can I e-mail you directly?  thanks.

Tod

Sure,

cwilliams at alum dot mit dot edu

Regretfully, I too want to return my camera.  I've been SO excited since I placed my order in October after viewing the online picture gallery.  I used the camera tonight while my daughter was at gymnastics, again at home, and my son in the bathtub (where there was plenty of light).  All of the pictures were very grainy and nothing like the ones I viewed online. Even though it might work better outdoors I should be able to use it everywhere for the price.  Please let me know what I need to do to return this.  I'm sure this might be resolved in the future.  I love the design and the ease of taking the picture, just need to work out the bugs.    

Thank you for your help!

Hollie

holliebuccellato@yahoo.com

My Lytro is awesone as you guys say, it isn't perfect. I like to photograph people, flowers, places and am wili g to 'go with the flow' to find subjects that give me good results.The first subjects that came to my mind were flowers (I am very close to a Conservatroy) and cemetery headstone. I'm having the most success with flowers and still lifes (of fruit & vegetables) with 'macro' shots. Lighting does take some work and I've much more experimenting to do,

I'll retry  people as subjects (now that I studied Creative mode) and return to shoot the cemetery on an overcast day. 

The noise is bothersome but since I'm no concerned with printing, it's not a big issue for me.

There is software that deals well with noisy JPG images so personally I don't anticipate a problem when I get my Lytro. Perhaps eventually similar routines can deal with living pictures taken in low light.

I have editing ideas but will enter them later as it is bed-time. The one thing I want to comment on is the low light. I have had very good luck with low light -- most of mine are outdoors, but two different points to make. Capturing lacrosse action at night works much better with my Lytro than my iPhone 4S and depending on the shot does as well as my DSLR. Secondly, when aiming toward a light source the other cameras have a lot of white haze -- the Lytro has much less problem (also I found this true aiming toward the sun in daylight). When I shoot directly at the high intensity lamps the 4S is a solid white mess, the DSLR shows little white blobs and the Lytro showed the details inside the lamp housing including the bulb. 

So my bottom line is the Lytro does a very nice job in low light -- much of this was done in Creative Mode.

I have some software tips for fellow Lytro camera users.  There are numerous noise removal programs on the market.  Adobe's Lightroom 4 removed noise fairly well from indoor low-light Lytro photos that I took yesterday and exported as a JPG file.  For industrial strength noise removal, use the Topaz DeNoise plug-in for Adobe Lightroom, Photoshop, and Apple's Aperture.   My initial concern with the Lytro camera was the small file size of the exported JPG file.  It is only 1080 X 1080 pixels, effectively allowing only small photo prints to be made.  The solution is Resize 7 from onOne Software.  The software runs on its own on the desktop without the need for purchasing Lightroom or Photoshop.  Just drop the photo onto the program icon and enlarge to 16x20 inches if you like!  Even more fun is the Perfect Photo Suite 6 from onOne Software which utilizes layers and masks ala Photoshop.  I exported the same Lytro photo, but at three separate focus point settings, then merged them together in Perfect Photo Suite for an image with perfect focus from close-up to distant background.  Its fun to do, but I hope Lytro will add a perfect focus function to their software.  By the way, I am retired and have no association whatsoever with the software companies mentioned in this post.

Just an addition to Stanley Fowler's valuable input: Topaz DeNoise is supposed to work with iPhoto too using their free Fusion Express app. I've never tried Fusion Express but I do use their other products and can recommend them highly. They do allow you to use their products for a month or so _without_limitation_ so you can make sure they work for you before spending any money. (Google "Topaz Labs")

I have no affiliation with them either.

Wow! A lot of dissapointment in that thread!

I do hope u guys (Lytro) can do something about how grainy the images are though.. that is a problem... although I bet that is someone is a "professional" they probably have a light they could use. Anyhow, with the software playing such an integral role with LYTRO, I am very much hoping the improvements would be forthcoming... I even have pictures made in full daylight, on a sunny day, where shadow created by the subject's features, cause grain-ness (is that a word?:) in the image. The same happen a lot more if the subject is further away - but that could also be somewhat caused by pixalation as the subject being far, is smaller (example - my daughter's elbow and darker area of the face by the hair - https://pictures.lytro.com/gtokarsk/pictures/137718 ) I will also look at some links above - maybe they'll be helpful. Happy to have found this thread.

GT

Howdy Greg,

Question -- are you in EM or CM? In EM one can control which area one wants to be optimized for exposure. 

I suspect that the optical engineers are working on this question. One a great feature of this technology -- pictures taken now can be revisited and reprocessed anew.

Looking at your pictures -- it seems that of the really fun series of pictures of your daughter the one you highlight seems to have the greatest ratio of distance to 1st subject to 2nd subject. This makes me wonder if you were in  CMode and if so where was your focal-midpoint ?

There are some very interesting suggestions above as well as the longer term possibility that Adobe will be able to have an impact. As mentioned above, cropping is a very useful tool, as is noise reduction -- I hope something with Adobe does happen in the future.

I will go back to my comment about the 4S above -- I have experimented more and here are my thoughts: There is a point at which   the Lytro clearly comes out ahead of the smartphone camera.  I find this is very evident as one increases zoom and the ambient light dims. The Lytro does very well when zoomed to 8X. When the light is bright, but with shadows -- that is where it would be helpful to have some editing/noise reduction for the Lytro.  

Looking forward to learning more,

Grant

Grant, I switch a lot, but the images in that batch, including the one through the hole - mainly EM. I did not select the exposure point though. I may try that. The closeups with the grasshopper and in the trees were probably in CM, but not all either.

Thx for a  quick reply!

Howdy Greg,

You are welcome -- this is the best way for all of us to learn.

I think that would be worth a try -- that image in not one of extreme shadows so that might give that "extra" push for less grain.

With kids EM is a great option, our son is older and thus less wiggly so I can use more CM. I like CM more. One tip that might help with wiggle worms when they are not standing still, but playing at a relatively constant distance is to pre-focus on where you want the mid-focal distance. Then with the instant shutter you can snap when you are ready.

I look forward to your next images,

Grant

To all concerned about indoor use suggest you get a low cost flood lamp that one uses with older video cameras, my picture test1 was taken indoors using a 26 LED flood light for video cameras.

At the image size of my living pictures and JPGs I don't notice the grain even at low light. Yes, there is noticeable grain for JPG images enlarged, especially at low light; however, there are software programs and plugins that do a satisfactory job of providing large images and dealing with the noise.

I also use Photoshop with Topaz. When I received my Lytro, I was plainly baffled by the lack of even the most basic editing compounded by the inability to work with Photoshop. Seems like this may have been rushed to market a little too excitedly. "Look what I made Look what I made!" can you edit it? "well...noo....but we think you might be able to sometime in the future maybe! Hey! Look what I made!"  So yeah, congrats, you made a neat thing. I'd like to be able to do neat stuff with it. Until you can run with photoshop, how about the ability to recompile those jpeg exports that I *can* edit with Photoshop and Topaz (denoise is a definite MUST for this camera) back into a living picture?

It would be nice to be able to take pictures of people and still give them the full facial editing - whiten teeth, brighten eyes, de-blemish, smooth lines, and still have the functionality of a living picture. Or even just to be able to apply some basic brighten and contrast, vibrance and saturation, and denoise to all the exported images and bring that back to the whole. This is my grainy Lytro image. https://pictures.lytro.com/CameraBug/stories/63989 And these are the smooth exports I edited. http://flic.kr/p/cVGtBC

Sharon,

 I hope you are putting the suggestion of editing options into the suggestions for the future part development part of the forum.  Lytro is aware of this, most all of us have raised this idea, but the more the merrier in terms of suggesting what we would love to see in terms of software and editing options. I would love to be able to crop and control exposure.