I'm going to be taking pictures on vacation, and uploading them to my macbook. I would like to merge my library when I return.  I have also wondered if maybe i could simply move the library to something like dropbox, and have each implementation of the software point to that location. 

Wow, I would have thought that moving pictures from a macbook to a desktop would be a given.  I never suspected it couldn't be done.  I'm guessing a high percentage of people who bought the Lytro cameras had planned on taking them somewhere.  If I had known ahead of time I would have left them in the camera after downloading onto the macbook.  Then maybe I could just download onto both devices?

Please make these limitations clear from the outset, so that we can work around them.

I am understanding that the picture movement issues described here exist only with the pictures in their "live' mode (sorry, I don't have my camera yet - today supposedly - and I don't know all the jargon or operation details yet).  Once you "freeze" them as a JPG I'm assuming you can move them as you would any JPG file.

Wow.  I just got back from vacation and opened up my laptop to copy my images over to the desktop, and am just now finding out that this isn't possible. So I guess I am apparently going to have 2 separate libraries (one on my laptop, one on my desktop) for the foreseeable future. Totally ridiculous.

It's like nobody used these in real world situations before they were released.

well, it's not so much that I'm out of space, it's just that I wouldn't take my desktop on vacation with me, and since the only feasible way to look at the pictures is on a computer, I had to put the pictures on the laptop I had with me. 

If I had known about the fact that they'd be trapped there forever, I wouldn't have deleted them from the camera. 

Perhaps until this is dealt with in a better way, it would be good to let users know that it's in their best interests to only have 1 library, and that they shouldn't delete pictures from their cameras until they are imported to their "home" library.  Basically, let users know about this like Ken suggested above, so we aren't shooting ourselves in the foot like I did by deleting the images off the camera while on vacation.

Great idea, we can add some copy to the delete dialog in the desktop app.

Today that should be not so a problem to deal with that... i hope i will get better solutions on that

Laird, I wish we could commit to more specific timelines, but there are a variety of reasons why we can't.  It's obvious that it's one of the more hotly requested items on these boards, so I can assure you we will prioritize it appropriately.

The fact that we can't export or import the images, is just unbelievable stupid. How can you pretend that we would store everything in one computer and not have an easy was to move in an other computer, or just save in a different HD, NAS, or online storage...

Perhaps the coders can insert a few lines in the next release of the software, something that will give people the option to import the image files from a card/stick? and then they would be added into the library. (I'm assuming it only imports from the camera at the mo as I have at least 7 weeks to wait before mine is made) 

I've written an application that is able to merge a Lytro photo library to another (your main) Lytro photo library. You can find it here: http://behnam.github.com/lytro_library_merger/

At this moment, only Windows 7 is supported. But you can change the code to get it work on you Mac OS X, or just wait until someone does that.

I wrote it for myself first and thought you may find it useful as well. Please note that there's NO WARRANTY that it works, and make sure to BACKUP YOU WHOLE LIBRARY before trying this application.

well done that man! 

Fantastic! I'm a Mac user, so perhaps this weekend I'll take a shot at getting this running on Mac OS X. It's a Python app, so hopefully it won't be too hard - Mac OS X has python pre-installed.

I'm curious - how'd you figure out Lytro's library format, etc.? Reverse engineering? Docs?

The locked-library system for storing images in the Lytro software is unacceptable.

This is not a sustainable approach to storing image information. What are your active photographers supposed to do in a year when these libraries become unwieldy? What about when they buy a new computer?

The library is fragile and can become corrupted easily  - by your own admission.

Legitimate users cannot move photos between computers, making it useless for anyone traveling with one of these (The tiny touchscreen is so lo-rez it is pointless as a previewing device).

Although each image is huge, the only output option is uploading web-resolution images to the Lytro website.

I expected much more sophisticated software than what has been supplied. I'd hoped I could at least crop my images and back them up somewhere!

Without some software improvements and eventually the ability to self-host ones one's own images, this thing is nothing more than an expensive toy.

@Eleanor, I think exactly the same. If I can understand the technical difficult to give more quality to the images, I really don't accept a really poor software as the Lytro. Not to mention that is the only software able to manage the Lytro images.

I find it really interesting that Windows software has been released, and even an application to address this image moving/multiple library issue on windows computers, and this has not been addressed in the Mac software.  I agree with the majority opinion here -- Lytro, please set our images free.  Make it possible for us to port to multiple computers, and work with the images outside the Lytro program and website.  We can't grow your brand if you limit us this way.  We want Lytro to be seen as more than a toy. 

@Halle, the application that move the files is not an official one, is deploy from one of the person that had time and knowledge. Also I agree with you that without a good software it's impossible to grow, and see the Lytro more than a Toy.

I really hope that there will be other cameras versions with better software soon. I'll give an other try to Lytro next year, if all this lacks will be filled.

@Nunzio,  yes, I know the application was a user build.  (I don't have a Windows 7 system, but thanks for your effort, Behnam!) 

Eleanor, your post accurately mirrors my frustration. I've been exporting single images to work with as jpg, but I can only do that with one image at at time. At the very least we need a program that will allow us to export the images as a batch.  I expect to bring home hundreds of images over the next two weeks.   Maybe 20 of them will get exported to jpg. Maybe 100 will get uploaded.   I really do not know what I am going to do when I max out my hard drive. 

Lytro needs to explain the reasoning behind making the photo's non-transferrable in the first place. Being open about Lytro's motives and rationales will go a long way toward dispelling the ill-will that's been generated. Without such an explanation, people must either conclude that Lytro did not think about the issues before releasing the product (which makes Lytro engineers and executives look dumb) or that Lytro deliberately wanted to stifle user's control of their own files (which makes Lytro look evil).  Lytro needs to make a call—will it be Apple at its best or Kodak at its worst?

Hi  all. Thanks for the support. I have got my app work in Mac too. You can read the instructions and download the latest version at http://behnam.github.com/lytro_library_merger/

@Laird No documentation. I just looked at the files and figured it out.

Let me also note that the Lytro engineers have not tried to make it hard to hack/manipulate the picture files or the library. So, even though the official application doesn't provide that much functionality yet, we have the liberty to do it ourselves. I appreciate this attitude.

I would be glad to hear about your experience with the application. :)

Hello all, I may not have properly introduced myself earlier but I'm the Director of Product for Lytro.  I can promise you the entire product team reads every one of the posts to make sure we're prioritizing the right features.  I can also tell you that the frustration you're feeling has been heard and it's definitely not an issue of product philosophy or strategy.  We want to build a very open and easy photo experience for all of you.  The issue is purely about resourcing.  We are still a startup and trying to rapidly grow our team (if you know any C++ engineers, let us know!).  While I can't promise you a timeline yet, I can tell you better library and picture management is at the top of our priority queue.  We understand that the lack of this feature is punishing our most ardent and frequent users, most of you on this thread.  Please feel free to keep asking questions, and I'll try to be as open and responsive as possible.  

@Chris Macomber. It's been nearly a month since your earnest proclamation (july 28, 2012), and as end users we do want to believe you. And as end users, we want to see our Lytro become a part of our regular gear and workflow, and a camera that we reach for as often and as resourcefully as we would our DSLRs. We do not want to see our Lytro cameras relagated to the status of a mere nifty gadget that often gets left home on the shelf because there just isn't a lot we can do with it, or because it takes too much time, and too much propriatary software, to do it. We WANT our Lytro to come through for us. We want you to succeed. 

Now I'm all for open source code, and I appreciate that you are "still a start up", but things like this - no ability to back up photos whatsoever, a cutesy lens cap that can't be held in place unless you use TAPE, no editing ability whatsoever - make it look like the people at Lytro were so eager to show of their shiny new gadget that they forgot about the end users and pushed it out too soon. They are already planning "new features" before they get the basics working. You shouldn't be planning on how to make your wagon run on jet fuel before you replace the wagon wheels. 

Almost a month and no updates? Do we know any C++ engineers. haha. See the post above your last one. While he may or may not be a C++er, he's at least got a temporary fix up and already DISTRIBUTING.So why doesn't Lytro just pay the man (and others that make temporary solutions) and offer it up as an actual temporary product upgrade until you can get fully functional product upgrades out there? Wouldn't that be "growing your team" as well?

And I'm not sure it's very efficient to have 'the entire product team' reading 'every one of the posts'. You should maybe have someone in charge of delegating posts that need a specific departments attention TO that department, and a person in that department to attend to those. Not waste so much time every day having the whole product team read every single post. That's a lot of on-the-clock hours.

And hey, about that update....is there any news about the ability to backup photos, or transfer them from one computer to another, or even to be able to put them back onto the camera should we wish to do so?

There appears to be no way to make jpegs.  Thus the photos can't be printed.  I bought this gadget so I could focus after shooting and print with a focus I like.  That seems to be impossible.

Paul, there is. In the desktop part, when you don't have the image open to full size, right click on it, and click export to jpeg. You can actually export as many as you want with different focus points set. I did that with this image here: http://pictures.lytro.com/CameraBug/pictures/332032 And here are the jpegs on my flickr site. http://flic.kr/p/cVGtBC I ran them through Photoshop and Topaz Denoise and it really smoothed the grain down. I just wish there were a way to recompile them after!

Sorry, that's not "export to JPEG". I just looked, and it actually says "export JPG". Faulty memory :P

Sharon, All, I can promise that we will be addressing the picture management issues with new features in 2012.  I truly do understand the frustration exhibited here, and we always want to balance the needs of all of our customer base.  We do have an interim workaround solution that we're giving out via customer support.  Please contact us via http://support.lytro.com/home if you're interested.

Hi, thanks Chris. I found this thread about how to make a backup copy of the library file in case something happens to your computer, a good idea if you like to back up to an external drive. http://support.lytro.com/entries/21103573-how-do-i-back-up-my-living-pictures Make sure you keep a copy of the thread with it too, so you remember how to reinstall it! I just had a firmware update, haven't played around with it to see what all it does, and earlier today had a desktop program crash that generated it's own bug report. Heh - this is just like beta testing a new game, but with a physical aspect to it too :)

lol @Adam. I suggested to Chris that Lytro buy Behnam Es's utility as a temporaty solution and officially offer it until they have a full working solution. He's even got a version for Windows and Mac.

Wondering if my circumstance is similar..... 

I currently have pics on the Mac application but downloaded the windows software when it came available.  I have not yet put any pics in the windows one.  Both my laptops are on the same network, but the Mac one is my hubbys he let me use while waiting for windows desktop to come out (I was a preorder customer)...

Need to get the pics of his laptop and onto my own....  

• Can they maybe be resaved onto the camera from the app?
• will the unpublicized "work around" work for me?
• Do i need to do the 3rd party library move?

Please help! 

Kelly Clark  (Breeder@SympaShelties.com)

Morons.

I did not buy a "work-in-progress".  I bought what you advertized. $400 for some wet dream by a bunch of under-worked, overpaid sh*&-heads from California is a rip off.  Try to get to work before 9 am, cut out the two hour lunches. and stay later that 2 in the afternoon.  Oh, and cut out internet access, so maybe, just maybe you can accomplish something.

I am sure the investors in your "startup" feel like a bunch of tools

I had ordered a Lytro Camera from Futureshop, Canada and waiting for it to be delivered.  Just read the User Manual which I download from your Web.  A couple of questions:

1.  In page 15 of your Manual, after I installed the Lytro Desktop... Unplug and re-plug the camera...then a Backup Process will start...  May I know what "Backup Process" are they doing?  Are they copying something from the camera to the computer or they are copying something from the computer to camera?  Or they are copying something from my camera/computer to your server (may be for registration)?

2.  In page 18, you mentioned that "LFP’s are not accessible on your computer file system. As such, if you have a support case and are asked to export an LFP file, simply right click on the picture within the Desktop application and choose "Export Picture"."   I assume what you mean is that our Window system cannot read the .lfp files, (as mentioned in your above discussions with other users), we can only copy/move the Lytro Library folder from "AppData > Local >" for tranfering to other computer or backup purpose.  The inaccessible .lfp files are all located inside this Lytro folder.  Am I right?  In your next sentence, what do you mean by "a support case"?

3.  When I take pictures with any camera, the most important goal is to keep the memories.  Therefore, transfering files or Library between computers is not the main issue (to me), because any hard drives or computer will die one day.  I usually need to backup the image files onto multiple DVDs for long lasting records.  So for Lytro Camera case, I believe I need to backup this Lytro folder (in AppData > Local >) onto DVD (rather than the .lfp files, because Window system cannot read them).  Right?  May I know if there will be any problem to burn these "inaccessible .lfp files" inside the Lytro folder onto a DVD?  Can the DVD burner software read these inaccessible .lfp files which are inside the Lytro folder?  Some DVD burner software does not support long file names, what is the maximum length for the names of these .lfp files?  Since we cannot see the files from Window system, I need your info.

Can you send your reply to my email address as well.

Thank you.

Hi Lytro Support,

Please ignore my above question 1 & 2.  For question 3 of the DVD backup, I will try to open another topic in your forum.

Thank you.

Peter

OK, guys, any progress on this one? The new features are awesome, of course, but the inability to move photos between computers seems like a pretty basic gap in the product's functionality. Given that there's a script that appears to do this, how hard would it be to integrate this into the Lytro app so that it's properly supported?

There have been announcements on library management http://support.lytro.com/entries/22526957-lytro-library-management-...

Now, that is not as good as moving images between libraries . but now that you could save your library wherever (including external drive) yo can make a copy of it and move it elsewhere... 

Also there's that old way of backing libraries up, which could be used to "restore" them elsewhere.... http://support.lytro.com/entries/21103573-how-do-i-back-up-my-livin...

I do hope Lytro will soon provide a way to maybe open 2 libraries at once and move images/stories between them.. 

A copy or move between them (or copy within would be cool too)

I too am still waiting for this to be integrated into the app.  The filters and 3d wobble are fun, but until I can deal with the photo archive in a professional way it is just a gizmo.  I have to watch how many pictures I keep because they are so large and I don't have an effective way to manage the storage of them.  Help! 

Guys, please note that I have NOT tested my Lytro Library Merger tool with the latest update for Lytro Desktop app (version 2.0). Hopefully I get some time to work on it in the hollidays, but in the meanwhile please make sure to BACKUP EVERYTHING beforehand, if you decide to give it a try.

Agreed. It's nice to have it as a hack.. but it does need to be fully integrated and supported.